The dangers of allowing religion to influence government

[ChildeHarold]

2 hours ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

Aye, fair enough.

They say the High Church is the Tory Party at rest? 

[Stubby Pecker]

On 06/09/2020 at 22:13, Weary&Disgusted said:

Ideally, a government serves the best interest of its people, and looks to foster good relations with other nations.  In actuality, geopolitics are significantly shaped by the never ending quest for hydrocarbons.  Its unfortunate that the nations of the world are all oil and gas junkies, and that this largely dictates their foreign policy, but we accept it as the way of the world.  What I find more alarming is an increasing trend for the current US government to be influenced by loony fringe elements of the Evangelical churches.  The reason I mention this is that some of the more extreme forms of evangelicals appear to believe that before Christ can establish his kingdom on earth, it is first necessary for an "end times" bloodbath to take place in the middle East.  Worryingly, these "Christians" seem to be okay with the prospect of some large scale battle taking place somewhere in the vicinity of Israel, because this will supposedly usher in the second coming.  So this big time loss of life almost seems to be eagerly anticipated, because its a prerequisite to Jesus returning to earth.  

If this was just something some backwoods nutters subscribed to, it wouldn't be much of an issue,but increasingly, these people appear to have the ear of the president, and unfortunately its not outside the realms of possibility that their mutterings about "Gog and Magog" may be starting to influence American foreign policy.  

One preacher named John Hagee has apparently been calling for a war between American and Iran for years now.  He doesn't seem to be bothered about all the people who would get killed in the crossfire, as long as its fulfilling his beloved biblical prophecy, its all good in the hood. 

As I say, in any sane universe, these people would be ignored or sectioned, but both Pence and Pompeo are also reportedly evangelicals, so its hard to tell how much they buy into the fringe beliefs.  With Trump moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in 2016 ( which didn't exactly help the Israeli Palestine talks), and then ordering the killing of Soleimani ( who admittedly had a lot of Western blood on his hands, but was also doing a fantastic job of exterminating Islamic State and Al Q militants in the area up until the point he was blown into smithereens), it makes me nervous about the future and nostalgic for the good old days when governments were primarily motivated by black gold and natural gas rather than questionable interpretations of cryptic biblical prophecies.  

 

[Miles]

On 06/09/2020 at 22:13, Weary&Disgusted said:

Ideally, a government serves the best interest of its people, and looks to foster good relations with other nations.  In actuality, geopolitics are significantly shaped by the never ending quest for hydrocarbons.  Its unfortunate that the nations of the world are all oil and gas junkies, and that this largely dictates their foreign policy, but we accept it as the way of the world.  What I find more alarming is an increasing trend for the current US government to be influenced by loony fringe elements of the Evangelical churches.  The reason I mention this is that some of the more extreme forms of evangelicals appear to believe that before Christ can establish his kingdom on earth, it is first necessary for an "end times" bloodbath to take place in the middle East.  Worryingly, these "Christians" seem to be okay with the prospect of some large scale battle taking place somewhere in the vicinity of Israel, because this will supposedly usher in the second coming.  So this big time loss of life almost seems to be eagerly anticipated, because its a prerequisite to Jesus returning to earth.  

If this was just something some backwoods nutters subscribed to, it wouldn't be much of an issue,but increasingly, these people appear to have the ear of the president, and unfortunately its not outside the realms of possibility that their mutterings about "Gog and Magog" may be starting to influence American foreign policy.  

One preacher named John Hagee has apparently been calling for a war between American and Iran for years now.  He doesn't seem to be bothered about all the people who would get killed in the crossfire, as long as its fulfilling his beloved biblical prophecy, its all good in the hood. 

As I say, in any sane universe, these people would be ignored or sectioned, but both Pence and Pompeo are also reportedly evangelicals, so its hard to tell how much they buy into the fringe beliefs.  With Trump moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in 2016 ( which didn't exactly help the Israeli Palestine talks), and then ordering the killing of Soleimani ( who admittedly had a lot of Western blood on his hands, but was also doing a fantastic job of exterminating Islamic State and Al Q militants in the area up until the point he was blown into smithereens), it makes me nervous about the future and nostalgic for the good old days when governments were primarily motivated by black gold and natural gas rather than questionable interpretations of cryptic biblical prophecies.  

It was about 10 years back when some loony who was the Iranian PM said that he was prepared to let 15 million Iranian soldiers go to paradise if that was what it took to eliminate Israel and Saudi Arabia and give the USA a bloody nose.

[Miles]

20 hours ago, ChildeHarold said:

They say the High Church is the Tory Party at rest? 

No it was that the Church of Egland was the Conservative Party at Prayer .. the Methodist and the like were seen as the Liberal Party at prayer.

[ChildeHarold]

3 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

No it was that the Church of Egland was the Conservative Party at Prayer .. the Methodist and the like were seen as the Liberal Party at prayer.

Thanks for completing that saying correctly. I feel like a congregation member in the Little Britain sketch. "And now the exchange vicar Reverend Jesse from Harlem" 

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

7 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

It was about 10 years back when some loony who was the Iranian PM said that he was prepared to let 15 million Iranian soldiers go to paradise if that was what it took to eliminate Israel and Saudi Arabia and give the USA a bloody nose.

Yes, armoured dinner jacket or whatever his name was.  I acknowledge that religious insanity comes in a variety of flavours.  Belief in an afterlife does tend to make some of them quite casual about treating their own people as cannon fodder or human shields.  

[Miles]

1 minute ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

Yes, armoured dinner jacket or whatever his name was.  I acknowledge that religious insanity comes in a variety of flavours.  Belief in an afterlife does tend to make some of them quite casual about treating their own people as cannon fodder or human shields.  

When you read up on what happened from 1943 onwards Hitler actually used the German people as a human shield to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

On 09/09/2020 at 20:43, Dawn Chorus said:

When you read up on what happened from 1943 onwards Hitler actually used the German people as a human shield to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

He was a thoroughly bad egg, and what's more, a sore loser.  

[Earl of Punkape]

On 09/09/2020 at 20:40, Weary&Disgusted said:

Yes, armoured dinner jacket or whatever his name was.  I acknowledge that religious insanity comes in a variety of flavours.  Belief in an afterlife does tend to make some of them quite casual about treating their own people as cannon fodder or human shields.  

The Catholic martyrs were the epitome of courage against duplicitous despots who had hijacked religion for their own greed and ingratiation.

[King Billy]

1 hour ago, Earl of Punkape said:

The Catholic martyrs were the epitome of courage against duplicitous despots who had hijacked religion for their own greed and ingratiation.

If only they’d read their bibles a bit more. They might have learned that abusing kids isn’t what Jesus would have wanted.

[Miles]

2 hours ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

He was a thoroughly bad egg, and what's more, a sore loser.  

Many years ago an old gentleman friend showed me some, paintings .. the artist was obviously quite competent but they lacked something, you might  have said a "flourish" .. the artist was believed to be a certain A Hitler .. my friend said that he thought that had he had been given the training that he so desired and was denied the chance of having he might have gone down in history as a fairly good artist rather than a tyrant.

[camberwell gypsy]

1 hour ago, Dawn Chorus said:

Many years ago an old gentleman friend showed me some, paintings .. the artist was obviously quite competent but they lacked something, you might  have said a "flourish" .. the artist was believed to be a certain A Hitler .. my friend said that he thought that had he had been given the training that he so desired and was denied the chance of having he might have gone down in history as a fairly good artist rather than a tyrant.

My great uncle Thomas was a great artist. Well, I say artist I mean a forger. 

[camberwell gypsy]

3 hours ago, Earl of Punkape said:

The Catholic martyrs were the epitome of courage against duplicitous despots who had hijacked religion for their own greed and ingratiation.

What like the selling of indulgences? 

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

5 hours ago, camberwell gypsy said:

What like the selling of indulgences? 

"£100.00 for a get out of hell free card squire ?  Make it £130.00 and I'll throw in an access all areas card to take you behind the pearly gates..."

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

6 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

Many years ago an old gentleman friend showed me some, paintings .. the artist was obviously quite competent but they lacked something, you might  have said a "flourish" .. the artist was believed to be a certain A Hitler .. my friend said that he thought that had he had been given the training that he so desired and was denied the chance of having he might have gone down in history as a fairly good artist rather than a tyrant.

In an alternate time line /parallel world he was showing his etchings to all the pretty gals.  

[Miles]

11 hours ago, camberwell gypsy said:

My great uncle Thomas was a great artist. Well, I say artist I mean a forger. 

Was he good at forging friendships.

[Eric Cuntman]

9 hours ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

"£100.00 for a get out of hell free card squire ?  Make it £130.00 and I'll throw in an access all areas card to take you behind the pearly gates..."

Reading Bernard Cornwell's medieval stuff gives a good insight into the corruption, hypocrisy and blatant profiteering of the church. 

'Father I have slaughtered children'.

'you will suffer the wrath of God!'

'here's enough gold to buy a farm'.

'god forgives you my child'.

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

16 minutes ago, Eric Cuntman said:

Reading Bernard Cornwell's medieval stuff gives a good insight into the corruption, hypocrisy and blatant profiteering of the church. 

'Father I have slaughtered children'.

'you will suffer the wrath of God!'

'here's enough gold to buy a farm'.

'god forgives you my child'.

I would quite like to see a comedy based on the concept of the Catholic church as an intelligence gathering organisation.  All that kompromat collected in the confessionals used to sustain an empire.  

With some devout members of the mafia acting as unofficial enforcers/ muscle for mother church.  

[Eric Cuntman]

5 minutes ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

I would quite like to see a comedy based on the concept of the Catholic church as an intelligence gathering organisation.  All that kompromat collected in the confessionals used to sustain an empire.  

With some devout members of the mafia acting as unofficial enforcers/ muscle for mother church.  

They already did it in 'The Godfather 3'

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

3 minutes ago, Eric Cuntman said:

They already did it in 'The Godfather 3'

Ah !  Goddamn.  I actually haven't seen that one, only the original with Brando.  

[Eric Cuntman]

6 minutes ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

Ah !  Goddamn.  I actually haven't seen that one, only the original with Brando.  

I wouldn't bother. Part 3 was shite. Part 2 was better than the first one though. 

[King Billy]

19 hours ago, Dawn Chorus said:

Many years ago an old gentleman friend showed me some, paintings .. the artist was obviously quite competent but they lacked something, you might  have said a "flourish" .. the artist was believed to be a certain A Hitler .. my friend said that he thought that had he had been given the training that he so desired and was denied the chance of having he might have gone down in history as a fairly good artist rather than a tyrant.

BSNH.

[Guest Weary&Disgusted]

19 hours ago, King Billy said:

BSNH.

That's usually the Judge's favourite opener.  

[Eric Cuntman]

4 hours ago, Weary&Disgusted said:

That's usually the Judge's favourite opener.  

It's his second favourite opener, after the rusty pliers he uses to wrench the lids off of cider bottles.